Avengers Endgame Roundtable: Where Does the MCU Go From Here? | NowThis Nerd

– The Endgame has arrived, the fallen have been avenged, and now that we've seen arguably the biggest movie of our lives, we have a lot to talk about I'm Moose Lopresto and today, I'm joined by Versha Sharma, Shane Boisierre, Andrew Rivera and together, we are here to have an extremely spoiler-filled discussion, about Avengers Endgame

How are we doing everybody? Thank you for joining me – Great, very excited – [Moose] Everyone's seen the movie, no spoiler warnings, nothing needed You didn't go to the bathroom and miss something, you don't want me to spoil it? – No, I held it – Excellent

– Had to hold it – Had to hold it – Had to hold it – Had to hold it, Moose – I thought we would start with our impressions of the movie

I think it's pretty safe to say that we all kind of liked it a little bit So instead of going around that, I just wanted to start off by asking what is the one stand-out moment, that's gonna stay with you forever? What is the one that got the biggest reaction in your theater and the one that just got the biggest reaction for you? Andrew? – So, okay, hands down, Captain America, Thor's hammer – Yes! It was so good! – I was, I swear to you, I convulsed in ways I've never convulsed when viewing a thing in my entire life I couldn't even control myself – Accurate

My husband said I squealed in a way he's never heard me squeal before And the rest of the theater did too though! Everybody had that reaction – The definitive fan service moment It's like, oh! He can have two of 'em (laughing) – Yeah

– And- – Go ahead – I was gonna say, but the way, obviously him picking it up was so exciting and Thor's reaction, he's like, I knew it! That was like, such an excellent, joyous reaction But then seeing him proceed to kick Thanos's ass, with both the hammer and the shield Was amazing – He gave him all the business

– Now this begs the question, did Captain America somehow become worthy since Age of Ultron? Or was he worthy during Age of Ultron and was just pretending not to be able to pick it up? – Hmm – I've seen both theories I think he became worthy, because we've got a man who spent the last five years grief counseling the world, and he's now in a moment in the ultimate battle against their ultimate villain, trying to save his friend Like what could be more worthy than that moment? It's much more worthy than trying to pick it up at a party, I think – I mean, the stakes were just so high

I think that was a lot of it too, you know The universe kind of speaking on it It's like, this is the moment You're ready – Big players play big in big games

What's your favorite moment, Shane? – My favorite moment has to be, just the return Like, – Yes – Specifically the shot of T'Challa and Shuri walking through with fucking halos behind them, just the golden landscape of Wakanda I just love that they were the ones to really herald it I think we were applauding for like five minutes straight

Like every single person that was coming back, oh Peter's here, oh Dr Strange is here It was great – It was such, it was so different from Infinity War, because the reaction in the theater was like, oh my God, Black Panther's getting disintegrated, gasps and shocks and screams And this is the exact polar opposite reaction – Yes

– Black Panther shows up, probably at like the exact same time code in the movie (laughing) – That would be interesting! – And like the polar opposite reaction, everyone goes nuts That whole scene was extremely cool So many people are in there Howard the Duck is in there, that's recently been spotted

– Wait, what? – [Moose] Howard the Duck was in there – Oh my God – I saw it and I was like – I did not see it, I like read that on Reddit later and I was like, I have to pay attention to that next time I go But I think Spidey actually got the loudest applause in our theater when he came swinging back through

People lost their shit – Queens Astoria, Queens love Spider-Man, he got the biggest pop I was very surprised What was your biggest moment, Versha? – Well I guess since Andrew took Cap and Mjölnir, I'll say my biggest moment, oh God, there's so much, I can't I mean, America's ass

That was a great moment, right? That was amazing, but like, emotionally getting to see Cap and Peggy dance at the end of the movie I mean, that was all I wanted! It was all I wanted, and I'm so happy that we got to see it – Yeah, it made me cry – That kind of leads us into our next question, 'cause we were just talking about this big giant battle scene with hundreds of characters and GCI gleep-glops getting blown up by lasers, but really this movie was about two characters, right? Like Infinity War was kind of a big hodge-podge, but this was about two characters It was about Captain America and Iron Man

And I wanted to ask you, Versha, how did you feel about how Captain America and Tony's arcs resolved? Because I noticed in that video that you did of ours, you kinda hit the nail on the head – Yes, if you haven't watched it, go watch the NowThis Nerd about the, nerd video about the saga of Steve and Tony, because I think, again, like if you're just kind of like reading the movies and looking at the way that the film makers have built their arcs, both of their endings in this movie were incredibly emotionally satisfying Of course, in Tony's case, heartbreaking But it made sense, it made sense for their arcs Like from the moment that Steve tells Tony in Avengers one, you're not the one to make the sacrifice play, I feel like his fate was set

Like we're gonna see him do that at the end of the movie, and we did And that moment where, first of all, I was very happy that Pepper came to the battle I thought that was awesome And when she tells him, you know, you can rest now, like, you've done it, you've finally saved the world, it's what you always wanted to do, that was heart-wrenching and beautiful – And also like, just to your point like, we start with Tony Stark as an arms dealer, and he's in the business of death

– [Versha] Yes – And from that one, the complete 180, 180? 180, yeah It's not a 360, he's not going back to death But that 180 switch from him being a weapons dealer to him saving all the lives he possibly could, it's like, such a perfect way to end his arc – He does kind of go back to death, because he does use the gauntlet to incinerate like, hundreds and hundreds of living beings

– Yeah, I was thinking about that, it's the Jericho It's the Jericho all over again, man – Yeah It's the Jericho missile – Yep

– Yeah, I like Tony I was a little ambivalent when I first saw the movie, and I saw his daughter and he's married I'm like, okay, well they can't kill him off now, right? Like he's achieved, I thought he was actually gonna put up a much bigger fight about not joining, you know, not helping figure out time travel and not joining the fray, 'cause he has something to live for now Like, I was a little surprised when he was like, I figured it out, and then he just like, immediately tells everyone and like, signs up pretty much knowing he's gonna die – 'Cause I think he misses it

– Yeah, this is what he lives, that's what he lives for The moment where he discovered time travel is the shit that he lives for And Pepper knows that too That's, all of the Pepper dialogue was so sad 'Cause it's like, she finally gets what she wants and she knows that it's not gonna last

– Yeah, and it is sad 'cause he has a daughter, but I was glad he at least got the five years with them, right? And he got to go back and talk to his Dad That was a very important moment too, for him to get that closure – Love the Jarvis, little Jarvis moment in there too – Well, speaking of things that characters live for, I don't know, I think, I guess I'm kind of playing devil's advocate, I really did love how everything ended out, but, so Captain America, I mean, what does he live for? He lives for you know, standing up for the little guy, you know, not kowtowing the bullies and protecting people So now, he's gonna spend the rest of his life from 1945 to 2023 when this ends, he's gonna have to watch a lot of bad stuff happen and sit on the sidelines, knowing like, he can't interfere

I don't know, I'm very glad Cap got to have a happy ending, I'm glad it happened in this movie, but I could have seen another world where like, he had the opportunity to go back with Peggy and he's like, I can't Peggy I have too much – But I think, I think he can interfere with some of it So there's like the big question, branched reality, the time travel plot holes, loop holes, whatever you want to call it So the film, Russso brothers said that he's living in a branched reality when he goes back with Peggy, so we have the Cap that we've seen for the last 22 movies, still doing all the shit and saving the world, and then we have Cap, happy Cap and Peggy in a branched reality

And that's what we see, so I don't think he necessarily has to sit on the sidelines, we have no idea what they get up to in that other universe – That's true I would just love to see how Captain America goes back and like, returns all those infinity stones, like – I want to see him talk to Red Skull! What was it like when he saw Red Skull? – That'd probably be like something that they're now optioning to be like a Disney Plus show maybe – Yeah

– Plus that One-Shot comic coming out next week – Cap saves the universe – Mm-hm – Yeah – Well I mean, so obviously these two were like the big linchpins, they're the ones going, but obviously there's another character we had to say goodbye to, that was very shocking

– [Versha] I was totally surprised – This one was very surprising, even though, again, apparently she spoiled it on Jimmy Fallon or something, a few weeks ago? – Oh, I didn't see that – Yeah, it was like a few weeks ago, Scarlett Johansson was on one of the late night shows, and she said, yeah, you're not gonna see me again after this movie or something – What! – And everyone kind of let it breeze by – What! – It was like, oh, they're making a black widow movie

She's not going, nothing's going to happen to her But indeed, she did Were you guys okay with that? Like, how did you feel about that? (exhaling) – Heavy sighs all around I cried a whole lot I cried a whole lot at that part

I was not expecting it Again, I do think they did an effective job of telling her story and that it made sense for her arc Like while everybody else was kind of splintering during the five year gap period, she was trying to keep everybody together, and keep the Avengers together She talks about how they're her family So they're at that point now where they're about to do it, they're about to save the world

She's like, what else do I need to live for? This is what I live for And so, she sacrifices herself And I thought it made sense I thought it was also very fitting that she and Hawk-Eye go out fighting each other – Yes

– I loved that I thought that was a nice touch, but I was totally surprised by that – I think, I think every single movie with like, I've talked about this before, with a large Avengers roster has at least one scene where we get to see them fight The fact that in this movie, they were fighting over who gets to die, gave that scene such a huge impact to me 'Cause it's just, she's trying to help her friend who wants to kill himself out of like bullshit reasons, depression and his family's gone

But she is indeed just trying to keep their family together and his role, despite how human Hawk-Eye and how much I you know, don't really care for Jeremy Renner specifically, I think that he's very important It's important to have those human characters And so, she made the right call I'm sad about it, but – What do you think, Andrew? – I don't know, I could have lost Hawk-Eye

– [Moose] Really? (laughing) – [Versha] Could have been Hawk-Eye – I feel like it almost would have diminished like, Scarlett Johansson's contribution, like as one of the big three Like, you know, it is about more than Chris Evans and Robert Downey Jr And like she is there, she's like, isn't she one of the first characters you see in the Avengers? – She's in Iron Man II – Well, I'm just talking in the first Avengers movie, like

She's like one of the first, when she's tied up in the chair doing the Russian undercover job Like, she's really important to this whole thing too And you know, I'm sure Scarlett Johansson wants to move on, even though, again, she is doing the Black Widow movie which is weird But I don't know, I just feel like it kind of like elevated her status as like, this is the old guard, they're really poor and she deserves having this big giant endgame-style send-off – [Versha] Yeah

– You know, I think it would have diminished her character, I guess her importance to this saga, if she had survived You know what I'm saying? – I read that they were going back and forth between should it be Hawk-Eye or Black Widow? That makes sense And I think one of the executive producers she said, don't you take this away from her Like it is her sacrifice to make, this is a huge thing for her, and I thought that was very poetic That was a great way to put it

– So we talked about the big three Obviously there's plenty more characters in this movie But it's more than just, you know, the conclusion to two characters or three characters' arcs This is a conclusion to 11 years and 22 superhero movies And do you think they stuck the landing? Like, Andrew? – Oh, for sure

I don't think that we're in our lifetime, gonna see another movie that is as big as this Even if there's a culmination with all another 22 movies, ending in an endgame-style movie, I don't think it'll ever come as close to the iconicism, and sheer weight that these movies have, for the moment in time in which they came out Period, period I don't think that anything's gonna top this It might top it monetarily, but I don't think that it'll have the same gravity because the precedent has been set by these movies

So I don't think that it'll be as special as it was now – Yeah, they were the first to do this This like, basically television-type story-telling on the big screen This was the first version of that across 22 movies Yeah, there's not gonna be anything like it again

– Mm-mm, no – Optimism is through the roof also Like if we have something, like you said, like this where, 'cause this felt very much like a send-off to the old Avengers, but also a set-up They bring everyone back and now we live in this golden age where these heroes are inspired by you know, the sacrifices of Captain America, and Black Widow and the Iron Man So what are they going to do when they move into the next version of that? I don't think we'll feel the same way as like, wow, they birthed this world, you know, and how will they go on with it? – I really like how you know, there is a set-up for a future

But at the same time, it very much felt like an ending Like one of the biggest and like best surprises for me, was that there was no mid-credit scene, there was no stinger, we just got that awesome Star-Trek six, had the cast signs their name – Yes, I loved that – So cool, I loved it, I'm like so glad they didn't like have everyone to have, or anything like that, it's just like, bye everybody, signing their name, that's what I'm doing in the air in case you didn't (laughing) – And the sound of Iron Man building that suit in Afghanistan, that's, that was the perfect stinger, I thought

– Yeah, you know, there were like so many people was like, oh, does that mean that kid was at his funeral and found his workshop and he's out making his own Iron Man suit? I'm like, no – No (laughing) – No – No – No

– Well, we clearly loved the movie, amazing, great stuff, but it wasn't perfect – It wasn't perfect There are questions – Yeah, let's go off – Yeah, there are some questions again

None of this took away from my enjoyment of the movie, I really, really liked it a lot – Same – You know, we could get into the time travel stuff, but you know, the movie pretty much explicitly tells you do not worry about any of this time travel stuff, it's not supposed to make sense, just go with it – Yes Which I loved, I loved that reference

The only thing they were missing was a Doctor Who reference! I was waiting! – I said that when we were walking out of the theater I was like why, they listed every single time travel thing in existence, except for Doctor Who – They even mentioned Quantum Leap, which was a great throwback, but you gotta get Doctor Who in there! – Gotta get Doctor Who in there – It may not stand up to the most scrutiny when you start going into the comments section reading people like trying to make diagrams and stuff Doesn't matter, no skin off my back, but one thing I kind of didn't feel as strongly about this movie as I did about Infinity War, was Thanos

Right, Thanos, Infinity War was Thanos's movie, right? He was the main character He was the Marvel Cinematic Universe most fleshed out, most realistic, just the heaviest villain they had And then they killed him in 10 minutes, and then they brought another version of him, who's literally just a cackling madman, who wants to destroy all the universe Do we think that like, you know, do we miss the old Thanos? – I didn't hate it – Really? – I didn't hate it, I'm with you

– I actually loved it – Yeah, I loved it – Go ahead, no you go first – No I was just gonna say, it was a huge surprise when Thor just chops off his head, and walks away and it fades to black and I think I was just like open-mouthed at that point I was like, holy shit, what are we gonna do for the rest of the movie? – They caught Thanos wearing a T-shirt, like he had just got back from moving the car outside

(laughing) – And my man's on laundry day (laughing) – Yeah and he looked like he hadn't shaved and I was like, Thanos shaves then, because he's got scruff going on And I loved that like immediately, they're like, (laughs) Nebula's like, oh I know where he is Like, well then let's go, and then like, two seconds into you seeing him at peace, he gets his door kicked the F in, and he gets his stuff tossed, is the most peachy way I can say it – Yeah, yeah

– 'Cause it was, that was satisfying And I liked that this mad character, this madman, going back in time, being birthed with the information that he succeeds, of course it's gonna make him such a linear person, because if you knew that you would succeed your madness is kind of fizzled out, I feel Like, like, the madness in terms of like in tandem with like your goal If you know that you're succeeding your goal, then you cease to feel any doubt, and like, I don't know, it made sense to me – You're 100%

I think what defines Thanos in Infinity War is his love for his children Like, or lack there of Like Gamora being the linchpin of his whole thing – Right – Whereas like Gamora's on her, I really feel like that's how he failed in this movie, he was keeping tabs on his kids

– Yeah – And he was just evil, he knows everything he's gonna do – But he's still, I thought he was still intimidating, right? When he gets to Avengers headquarters and he just like sits there, and is like I'm just gonna wait, they're gonna come to me And then, also when he sees himself die in the future, I thought it was really interesting to see his reaction which was totally calm and measured, and it's like, that's destiny fulfilled That's what it looks like, I'm totally fine with that, because I did what I had to do

– And it sets the precedent for how we the audience consume the deaths of characters in the movie, because sometimes that's what destiny looks like – Yep – It's crazy, like Thanos is such a reflection of what could go wrong with all these heroes and at the end of the movie, having everything go right, it's almost like the self-fulfilling prophecy – Yeah – I don't know

– Did you catch that one moment where it seemed like Cap was almost making his argument for him though? 'Cause he's like, I saw a pod of whales, coming, coming through the Hudson, fewer ships, cleaner water, it's like, that's Thanos's whole argument! (laughing) Improve the environment! – [Andrew] What, wait! – Yeah, but then, Black Widow stops him, so it's fine – Also, I loved how he came through at the end and switched his plan He was like, I'm not coming for 50%, I'm coming for all of it – Yeah, that's true – I'm taking all of your shit

It was scary – It was cool to see him lose his philosophy – Yeah – It was just full of it – Yeah

– Which I think makes him, that really made him the mad titan – Yeah – And that's what I think is his downfall The fact that he, look, yes, decimating 50% of all life in the universe is fucked up (laughing) – And significant

– And significant, but like the fact that he was like I'm going to abandon my like, ideology to like, show you how much I wanna destroy you, is the second, is that it becomes his Achilles Heel – Wow, and that sets him completely opposite of Cap also, who's like, I'm gonna stick with my ideology until the end of this movie – The end, the end – The end of this movie – [Andrew] Until the end of this movie

(laughing) – And then I'm out – We're in a movie, right? (laughing) – Destiny fulfilled – I think you guys did a great job justifying Thanos (laughing) Were there any other characters though, that you felt this film did a disservice to? Andrew, I know you had issues – [Andrew] Yeah, yeah

– With Thor – Yeah, I hated fat Thor Here's the thing I feel as though Marvel and Disney have a responsibility when you're showing these movies that yeah, we're like 20-something, 30-something year olds, talking about like superhero movies, but like ultimately the goal is that kids are gonna watch them, because it's the most accessible to a child When you're showing a kid that it's funny that somebody got fat, especially when that person got fat because of grief, and alcoholism, then playing it up for

Look, they didn't do a lot of like, haha Thor's fat jokes, but they did enough where I was like- – There were enough – Like I just felt like it was like, oh this'll be a funny thing that we can put in the movie that'll be funny Thor is the funny guy They did Ragnorok, so we have to like continue this whole thing where Thor is like the funny person So wouldn't it be funny if Thor was fat? It's just like, it felt lazy

– It was lazy and it was weirdly cheap for I think film makers who we expect a lot from at this point – Also, they're funny Like, the writers are funny, but also, Chris Hemsworth is funny – He is – He carried it and he did a good job

– He did – Also like, you could, I agree, like they could cut three or four jokes that just didn't need to be there It was the cheez whiz one that sent it over for me Where I was like, yo, like the Lebowski one worked – The Lebowski one was a level- – I was like that's

– [Andrew] They should have done Lebowski jokes across the board – Yeah, yeah – [Andrew] That would have been way better than just like- – And at the end when he does the hand shake with Valkyrie and then they like zoom back to his stomach, and it's like totally unnecessary

– [Andrew] Yeah! – Like a really cool significant moment – Oh, I forgot about that! – Yeah! But I will say, even though it wasn't like, it wasn't explicit, I liked that like he didn't have to go through a physical transformation, and like lose weight Like he was still badass, with Mjölnir and Stormbreaker at the end – And the armor, I was like, ooh! – I have to tell you that when I saw that they were doing the fat thing, immediately in my head was I really hope they don't cheap this out, and they're like, and he's like, I'm gonna go for a week away in a trance – I thought he was just gonna get struck by lightening and be skinny

(laughing) – Look, I mean, also for me a lot of it was like he looked like your Dad, and I loved it I'm serious, I was like, yo, he's kind of evoking that- – [Andrew] Odin? – Yeah that Odin, he's Odin's son – Yeah I didn't even think of that – I thought about that a little bit, I was like, he looks a lot, kind of like Odin right now, yeah

– On sheer like, body-type visibility shit, even though Chris Hemsworth is adonis, like I was like, here for it To the, until they kept going – And I did like the braided hair – Yeah, I know – Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

– As a gentleman of size, fat Thor didn't bother me that much, but I was, it was cool to see him being just a big old superhero, flying around at the end, like just loving life and going on adventures with the Guardians of the Galaxy I loved it – I think it was a double-edged sword I think you're right 'Cause of what you said, it's cool that like, he like, he's this new Thor, that's still badass

– He's still badass, yeah – I just wish they did it more tastefully – Yes – What do we think of Hawk-eye becoming a vigilante murderer? (laughing) – Oh – I've got a lot to say about that

– That was also the worst! – I'm sorry, that was my first laugh, yeah – Yo – [Andrew] Somebody else, somebody else should go – Well here's the- – Yeah, Versha what do you, or Shane? – No – Yeah, go for it

– (sighs) I'm over this, you know, Clint Eastwood shit, and just having him kill all these people of color and we're supposed to be like, yeah all right, the cartel's gone, all right, the Yakuza Like have him take on, it (sigh) – I don't know, like I didn't hate the idea of it I don't hate the idea of it, I could see somebody going mad from grief, you know, turning to that lifestyle But it did also feel like the Avengers accepted him back very quickly, no questions asked

And, whatever, this is like the ultimate battle to save the universe, but there was like no discussion besides you know, the two minutes with Black Widow that's like, you shouldn't be doing this – The Avengers have killed a lot of people Iron Man's killed a bunch of people, Captain America, Black Widow, like the Avengers- – Black Widow's ledger's red – Yeah, the whole team has a lot of red in their ledger, I don't know, they're usually willing to let a lot of things slide And I kind of liked his reasoning, he's like, 50% of the people are gone and you stayed while my family's gone? That is unacceptable

– I did like that line, it's like they had Thanos, you have me, yeah – What do we think about Captain Marvel, like who just had this big billion dollar movie and everyone's like, she's integral to Endgame She's going to be the linchpin of the Marvel Cinematic Universe She's going to be cru- you know, the key to Avengers solving the thing, and she just (bleep) off to space for two and a half hours and shows up for like seven minutes – But destroys the ship

Huge moment – She does destroy the ship – The whole beginning of the movie is like her story It was really after – Yeah, she rescues Tony! – The titles card, you're like, oh I thought she was gonna be in more of this movie – Yeah

But you know, I wasn't, I wasn't, I did not have a problem with that because this movie, as we've talked about is about the OG Six Avengers She's got multiple more movies to lead the franchise Like, she's gonna be fine So I didn't hate it and actually I was so consumed by all the awesome things happening in the final battle, I had forgotten about her, until she showed up and then it was like, oh shit! Captain Marvel's here! That's awesome! And I did think they did a very good job of, when she says you know like, there are a lot of other planets out there going through this, and they don't have you guys, they only have me Like, that makes sense

– Yep – It makes a lot of sense – I love that that's her whole thing too, is she's like, I'm like the universe's cop (laughing) Like, I'm like everybody's superhero, so like, chill out, like you know that when I'm here I can blow up a whole spaceship, so like, relax (laughs) Like, – It's true

– It's very cool that like yeah, 'cause also, you as like Marvel have to like be cognizant of the fact that she is a deus ex machina and you can't just have her there because she can just solve a problem like that – [Versha] Right (laughing) – But yeah, you can't, like I would, I would be like, like you would have to make Thanos so hyper-powerful that it almost doesn't make sense, if she's going to be there the entire film – Did enjoy it when he headbutted her and there was like nothing That was great

– Also, I mean, I think, ah I lost my point I think that she, oh, her role I think in the beginning of the movie was also to show that brawn doesn't necessarily, so her and Thor just coming through and cleaning the floor with Thanos Like, it shows how brawn is not gonna solve this problem specifically, and I don't think that that defines her character But I think that they wanted to focus on the main people and also showcase how powerful she is – Yeah

– And give them the chance to you know, kind of solve their problems on their own I did like the scene where Widow is talking to like just different people across the globe and throughout space who are just on this shit, because this is our lives now – [Andrew] Mm-hm – So there's been a lot of talk about the whole sort of lady Avengers assemble moment – Yes

– A lot of people are calling it like too little too late, you know? Like what, I mean, Versha, what did you think about that moment? Was it earned? – I'm like 50/50 on it So okay, I've seen it twice now The first time I saw it, I lost my shit, I thought it was awesome, this is great, it's a great callback to you know, Infinity War with Scarlet Witch and, but you see even more people and Pepper's there, Mantis is there, it's all great The second time I saw it, it didn't land the same way, and I wonder if it was just like the hype of the first time, that like got me And I've read, I've read some articles that are like decent, it's a decent criticism of like, they didn't earn it

It's too little too late, but I mean, if they hadn't put it in, I would absolutely be complaining So I much prefer like having that moment and having it in, than to not have it at all – If I could do a WWE analogy for a second, if I may (laughing) There's been a lot of talk about like women's wrestling, WWE's like very proud of like, we're putting our women wrestlers forward, we're you know, we're giving them the spotlight And then their big move is, we put them all in a 30-woman battle royal, like in the under card of Wrestle Mania

That's kind of what it felt like to me, you know, you're like there's one who's like the big spotlight star, and then like there are, here they are They're not gonna really do anything, you're just gonna see them and that should be enough – Yep – It's kind of how it read to me – I do think, I wish that we saw more of what they did

Like, after they assemble, I wanna see the different people fighting and like, actually like taking people out We didn't see that, I would have liked to have seen that – When I was in the theater, again, like I was enthralled – Yep, yep – 'Cause, and I was talking to you about this earlier

I couldn't believe the shit that I was seeing For 25 straight minutes, I was like, this is everything I've ever wanted But when that moment came out, I was hype, but at the same time, I was like this feels like pandering, and this almost, like, not in a bad way Like, I mean, pandering isn't what I meant, but I felt, like it was half pandering and half like, very like, what's the word I'm looking for, like? God- – Trying to make up ground? – Yeah, yeah like it felt, it felt unearned, you're right Like it felt almost patronizing in way, like, here's the scene and they said the thing

– That's what you get, yeah – And now they're all back and you can't see anything 'cause there's so much going on Whereas, in Infinity War, where Scarlet Witch had her moment and then Okoye's like why was she, like That felt real – Yeah

– 'Cause it was like, 'cause I'm sure people in the theater are like where is all the like, where are all the women characters, and like why are we just seeing like the guys come in to like do all this stuff? And it's very vocal of like that feeling and just seeing it, I liked it, I liked how all of them like protected Spider-Man – Yeah! – That was really cool – [Versha] Yeah – 'Cause they're like, he's like, for me it felt as though they were like, he's too young to die Like, we gotta take care of him

Because everybody here has also forgotten how young this like Spider-Boy is Like, let's take care of him So I did love that, but I agree I felt, I felt, I feel as though, I've only seen it once I feel as though if I saw it again, it probably wouldn't land as much as it did the first time

– Are there any- ooh, go ahead Shane – No, I was just gonna say, you both said too little too late, and I think it functioned as kind of a role call Like I don't think they were necessarily patting themselves on the back But it was like hey, we need you to know all of the super power women who have been in all of these movies And I think to your point, like having it be Spider-Man that they're defending is kind of like, every single character that you love has lived on the backs of these women for so long

– Yeah – You know like, your Pepper's and Shuri's and Okoye's who like they wouldn't be who they are without them, and I agree that the way that they did it felt pandering, but also, it felt very comic-booky, which doesn't necessarily save it But just on a, like on a frame perspective, I was like this is a spread of everyone which needs to be here – That's fair, that's true – Yeah

– And I think one of the other criticisms people have of it is you gave me this moment of women Avengers assembling and Black Widow's not there – Yeah! – Like, she was there in Infinity War, but seriously, you're doing this after she dies? Like, come on – Maybe that was also part- maybe that was also part of the intention of like this is what she fought for – Yeah, that's true – They could have hammered that home a little bit more

– But I did, when she died, one of my first thoughts was like, really? They kill off the female Avenger? The one female OG Six, but then when you see the five of them, like dressed in black, on the dock, talking about it and talking about her sacrifice, I was like, well, this kind of makes up for it I think Like you see like the effect that she had on all of them And of course, they desperately wanna bring her back Like, they're talking about that too – Yeah

Any other, any other small character things that you wish? Like for instance, I can't believe Nick Fury didn't get a line – [Shane] Yeah – [Andrew] I was gonna, yep – That, I am Iron Man, they got all that stuff, and Nick Fury, who started this whole thing, didn't get a line – I felt as though this funeral was gonna end with Nick Fury making a speech, where it starts with there was an idea

– Oh! (laughing) Oh that would have been good! – I fully saw that coming – I just got chills! – Yeah, I fully saw that coming, and the fact that it didn't happen, I felt, first of all, yeah, why not give him a line? One line! – He could have just said there was an idea (laughing) – All he had to say was there was an idea – And they cut to black Cut to black, and I would have been like, oh my God, that was the way to end this movie

– I get the sense that whole funeral scene was just a logistical nightmare, like, people are clearly on green screens, an undercover batch being lit from a completely different angle And everybody else, like – Also the kid from Iron Man three is there and half the people in the audience were like, who's that? – Yeah, you couldn't recognize him – Yeah, I mean, I loved it I don't mind it

– I loved it too I loved it too I loved it too, but yeah, I was like what? – The fact that he was like, mm (laughing) Where have you been? – Yeah – Should have brought my spud gun

– [Andrew] Yeah! – My quibble, I think they did such a good job with the Captain America arc, and obviously I'm team Peggy all the way, like I'm very happy with that But I was so sad not to see more Steve and Bucky Like after everything, after the events of Civil War, after Bucky being the first loss in Infinity War like – So true – We get that hug at the end and it's lovely and the second time around especially it's very clear Bucky knows what he's doing

Like the look in his eyes, and he says, I'm gonna miss you buddy, and he gives him that hug Like you can, he knows that Cap is not coming back – Yeah – But besides that, there's nothing and I was like, come on! Like Bucky is the other love of Cap's life, like give us a little bit more! – There should have, even, there should have been a moment and maybe when I re-watch I'll catch it, where in the battle they have a thing too, where like, like but there was none of that either! And I was, I- – It's him and Rocket, it's just him and Rocket in the battle, yeah – Which was like the unofficial like, buddy-cop movie that I think that we need in the future

– I'd watch it – Yes – Winter Rabbit – Yeah, I was disappointed with that I was, a little more Bucky

– Well, Bucky though, you know, he may not have got his moment with Cap, but he is alive and well and he's ready for whatever the MCU has in store for him next And that's kind of where I wanna finish out talking about here, is with the future Because where does the MCU go from here? Here's my, more than the time travel and everything else, I was stunned that they stayed with the five year time skip So now everyone is returning to a world where half of the population has been gone for five years, and the people who are left have aged, have moved on It's very weird that like, this bright and sun-shiny Spider-Man Far From Home movie is essentially taking place in a post-apocalypse, where parents have lost their children, and you know, and just, are they gonna address this or are they gonna just brush this under the rug? – I think they're definitely gonna address it

I think if you went and watched the Far From Home trailer right now, would, this movie would re-contextualize the whole thing Because the part at the beginning when he's just doing PSA shit, I'm like, oh God, he's Captain America now Like he's literally doing the job that they would be doing of like, I don't know, making sure that this world is still happy and optimistic And the fact that he has to leave is just a testament to how much his responsibility's grown And before, it was just like, yeah, obviously Spider-Man's gonna do more now

But now Spider-Man has to do more and that's scary – And here's the thing too Spider-Man before Infinity War slash Endgame, 'cause the two have to be kind of counted together, even though it's been a five year, a five year ordeal, Spider-Man has now been in a position in which he's seen a universal scale of evil, versus there's a bad guy making weapons and flying around in New York, and I gotta stop him – Yeah – Like it was that and then I'm in space and then I'm dead and now I'm back

And so yeah, it makes so much sense that now Spider-Man is going to grow and become like the Spider-Man that he needs to be – And I think we're gonna see huge Tony Stark legacy on him, like I think we're gonna see how his death affects him in Far From Home Obviously they didn't wanna show any of that in trailers, they don't wanna give anything away But that moment when Tony's dying and Peter comes up to him and is like, we won, like what's happening? – Devastating – It was devastating

It was absolutely devastating And the reverse of Infinity War of course, so I mean I think, there's no way like we're not getting like a montage grieving scene or something – Yeah, I don't know, I wonder, 'cause this is comics man, you can always say like, you know, go to Dr Strange, he's like I've cast a spell that makes people forget, they know that something happened but they don't know the details You know what I mean? Like this is co- I just feel like, just for like the interests of moving on and like creating new like IPs and moving onto the next phase, like building that, like, you know This is supposed to be like a finale, some closure

And like, the whole five year time jump, everyone being dead, it's kind of like an albatross around the neck of like where the MCU is gonna go You know what I mean? Like, you want kids to be able to jump in with this one, the same way people jumped in with Iron Man 10 years ago, and not have to like, worry about all that stuff – All the baggage – Yeah, I have a feeling that they're gonna brush it under the rug, they might hand-wave it away as like, our brains couldn't process the enormity of what happened so, we're just gonna, we just know something happened, but we're just moving on – I think that they're gonna tie this into Mysterio's character and I think that Mysterio is going to be one of those people that was like in the five years that everybody was gone, I learned to be a hero

And now that heroes are back, he feels like, you know, he feels defunct And that's what changes him – [Versha] That could be interesting – So and I think that, and I think that this will be the one movie in which if any movies are gonna deal with it, it's gonna be this one And that way, it's like, this is the entry point to the rest of the Marvel Universe like you're saying

This will be the next one to jump into They're gonna have to address it up top, or throughout the themes of the movie, in order for it to be digestible for the rest of the cycle to continue – Well Kevin Feige said that Far From Home is actually the end of this phase – Oh! – We all thought Endgame was the end, he's like actually, Far From Home is the end of this phase, so then I think in the next, whatever the next movie is after that, then they'll move on – That's interesting, I didn't know that

Also, Fury's presence in Far From Home is a lot of that too, 'cause we don't get to see him react in Endgame, I think that that was deliberate move for him to just put all that on Peter I think that this is gonna be both of them grieving and he's gonna go through it by just dumping Iron Man responsibility on Peter And it's gonna be kind of, it's gonna mirror Iron Man two, where he's kind of a thorn in Stark's side And I'm excited for that 'Cause he's 16

– So speaking of you know, the future, Spider-Man Far From Home, coming out this year Black Panther two has been announced, The Eternals are coming out That could be just completely divorced from all this, like, you know, they don't ever have to see Earth And the Black Widow movie Now, does this have to be a prequel now, or was there something with that whole, you know, I really tried to bring her back, Tony thing? Like, did he just like snap and like accidentally wish her into existence? Like I don't know, trapped in a glacier somewhere

You know what I'm saying, like- – With the avatar (laughing) – I feel like they very much left themselves out to bring her back – I think it has to be a prequel – [Moose] Yeah? – My question was, when Cap returns the infinity stones, and he returns the soul stone to Vormir, does he get nothing in return for doing that? But- – [Moose] 'Cause he's like dropping it in a puddle of her brains – Right? I know, I've no idea

But Joe Russo said it's done Like, once you've made that sacrifice, there's no bringing them back They seem pretty set on saying there's no way that you can bring her back after that Unless they use pym particles and cross timelines again in the way that Gamora is now alive I don't know

I don't know – I hate that, yep – I'm also, I'm wondering the same question about like, we know that Vision is gonna come back There has to be a way to bring back people, and he can't come back unless they use the mind stone So what are they gonna, they're gonna have to come up with ways to bring these people back that we can't possibly like

I mean, maybe we- – Either that, or everything on Disney Plus is just gonna be added canon – Ooh, I'm gonna hate it – I don't think that, I don't think that will happen – But like, here's what I think I think it's difficult for you to balance both a movie canon and a series canon, especially with people dropping out, people you know, die

People don't wanna do the role anymore Like so much can happen, that you can't rely on the synergy of both a movie and the, a movie series and a TV series Or TV serieses So I feel as though they're just gonna be like, yep, it's animated Or, it's just, it doesn't count in the canon, or it's before or in the middle so that they can bring other things back, that you know

– Yeah, I figured it would be like in the middle, or something, but then Elizabeth Olsen said some of it's gonna be set in the 50s I'm like what? I don't understand that at all I don't, I don't know, I don't know I also thought it had to be joke, 'cause I think Wanda Vision is such a stupid name for a show! (laughs) So I really thought it was like a red herring! – I like it a lot I think Wanda Vision's a great name for a show

(laughing) – It does beg the question what they're gonna do with their movies now, because you know, you have this big moment, here you go Sam, you're Captain America now And you're gonna be on exclusively on Disney Plus with Sam and Bucky the show You know, like, – Which I will absolutely watch – Of course, but like, there is you know, no matter how successful Disney Plus is, there is a difference between a streaming TV show, and a billion-dollar movie You know what I mean, like

– The Netflix stuff, they never really- I think- – [Moose] Where the hell were they? – Yeah Yeah, someone said, where was Luke Cage? – Yeah, I saw a great meme that was like, Daredevil was like fighting a bodega owner, and you were like, where was he in this, like – Daredevil doesn't leave Hell's Kitchen – Yeah – So then it doesn't make sense

– He would freeze like Charlie from It's Always Sunny – No, he was like Sam, he's like Samwise Gamgee, he's like, I've never left the Shire! (laughing) – Yeah, he's- – Yeah I mean, so what do we think about it? That like, what was interesting about the first MCU is it was just a movie And then it was another movie And then it was a movie that brought a bunch of movies together But now this whole Disney Plus thing, is really throwing a wrench in the works

Because they are going to like shuffle off some of their content to there, and silo it off there and then it's like, you know, will these movies be as special you know, with the existence of Disney Plus, with this whole Disney dominance, and without these two huge stars around which this whole thing was based? If I may make another WWE analogy, if I might At the end of the 80s, Hulk Hogan left, Randy Savage left WWE had some very, very, very talented people there, but they were stagnating Like, people lost interest without those two stars and it took them years to build like new stars, like Rock and Austin, that captured people's memory So like, are we gonna be in like a weird rebuilding phase while their efforts are focused on building Disney Plus, and getting people to subscribe to that, and then the movies are just like, I don't know, turtles, space hippies, sure

– I think that's probably right, but Black Panther and Spider-Man both have huge followings already – Of course, of course – So that feels, they're gonna carry the next phase for sure and then hopefully, Captain Marvel gets a huge fandom as well – Plus, I didn't know who the F the Guardians of the Galaxy were before – It's true

– Same! – Like, I wasn't following those characters and nor were like people who don't really commit to the non Spider-Man, non Black Panther characters And I think those are some of the most beloved characters that exist now – Absolutely – So I am confident that they can make a Squirrel Girl movie that works, but I do think that it's gonna be way more of those like you know, not B-list characters, but ones that we just know less They're gonna have to readapt for the future

They were pretty good at it so far – That's a good point about the sequels, but then again, these are sequels right? Like, the only new thing we have announced is The Eternals You know, is there gonna be, you know, I struggle to think I mean, we still have all these Fox characters, but it really sounds like they're a long way away It doesn't seem like they're in a hurry

It might be like five years before we see any of these Fox characters in Marvel, right? So like, what is there left to mine, like what characters could we possibly see from Marvel that they haven't done, or you know, is it fine to just do a bunch of sequels? That's what they did They had Cap, Iron Man and Thor, and that was pretty much it for a while, they just did sequels of those until Avengers, you know? And I guess, we kind of have the blueprint already and like they're just gonna do it again, just with this sort of extra wrench of Disney Plus in the works – I agree Disney Plus is a gamble, but I also think they're gonna try to use it as like a training ground, training ground or building ground Like, I read you know, some people, obviously some people are like not that excited about Sam Wilson as Captain America, even though it has the potential to be totally awesome So their like Disney Plus show, gives people time to like, start to love Anthony Mackie in this role

And then if that fandom really builds then he can totally headline his own Captain America movie and it will be great So I can see it working that way as well – I'm not hopeful at all – No, all right – Well, no, I'm- – [Versha] Because of like racism, or just 'cause in general? – I mean, obviously 'cause of racism, 'cause that's something that the superhero movies have dealt with since they've started

Not just in terms of Falcon slash Captain America Just in terms of like, what the entertainment industry is becoming Because, you're right, all of the charac- they blew all the characters that have like, all that recognition, so now you're gonna go through kind of like the stragglers a little bit And you're gonna have to make us care about characters that maybe you didn't care about Like, I'm not excited for Dr Strange two or three, I'm just not

Like, and maybe that's like your favorite hero, but it's not my favorite hero So it's one of those things were like, now you have to, now you have to both A, have this proving ground, training ground thing and you have to like throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks and spend a lot of money on that, and Disney's one of those things where it's like yeah, they have a lot of money, but I also feel like they wanna save money and not necessarily like try their hand at a million shows So for me, I'm afraid that until X-Men starts popping off, that we're not gonna, I think you're right And I think that we're not gonna see a lot of kids in the theaters, or a lot of people in the theaters in the way that we saw for all these other phase one through four movies – I will say to your point, they did make us care about characters no-one cared about, with Iron Man, Cap

– Yeah, like the Guardians and Iron Man – Well Guardians, Iron Man and Cap They were B-listers you know But, now the B-listers are gone (laughing) That's the problem

Now you're gonna get like Speedball and Living Laser and you know, Night Thrasher and stuff like that Who are cool characters, but I'm yet to be convinced, you know, but I'm always willing to be proven wrong My big concern is again, everything's focused on streaming now, and we've seen what Marvel's streaming shows look like And there were some bright spots there, but there were also like, a slod There were some very dark spots there too, and like, you know, I worry that it's just like we're never gonna top ourselves with movies ever again, let's just focus on the streaming platform and then just like, just drive it into the ground until people get fatigued

I'm hopeful, I don't know, we haven't seen it It's gonna launch, when is Disney Plus launching? – This fall, they said – This fall, we've, you know, the future, no matter what happens, Disney's gonna make a lot of money and corporations will continue to dominate our lives And I think that's- – Amen! – Amen, brother! I think we should close out with just like you know, any final thoughts, let's just go around Give it like a one sentence thing, you know, what did you think about Endgame? What do you like, you know, just your final thought on the matter

– We didn't get to talk about one of my favorite moments which was Cap in the elevator scene And you thought it was about to be that fight scene again, but then he just says hail Hydra That was amazing! I absolutely loved that! – A good call to like the comics controversy that Marvel had like last year – Yes! It was the perfect call to that I thought, and his smirk as he walked away – And then right after that having him tell him that Bucky's still alive

Old version of him – Yes, that's the way to get him to let go – And he's like, what! – That was so good That was so good, yeah That was amazing

– That was one of- And then that leads into that is America's ass, what a great, that whole section was great And really quick to bounce off of that, I loved that in this movie, you get to see what happens after they beat the bad guy – Yes! – 'Cause like, there's Hawk-Eye and Black Widow are like taking out alcohol glasses, and like, Loki's loud-mouthing while his hands are cuffed, and like, like fucking Iron Man is like cleaning up Like it's just cool to see the aftermath of what happens when the superheros win in the end So I just loved that

It was really cool to see like almost like, an in-canon behind the scenes of like certain events that we've already seen Great execution – Great execution – Shane, any final thoughts on Endgame? – Think for a moment, I mean it's hard to come up with a favorite moment I just really think it was a great send-off

– It was – It was nice to see every single, like all of the main Avengers get closure, except for Hulk really I'm like, what are they gonna do with Hulk? And I'm excited, I'm excited for that though – I guess I could sum up my feelings on Endgame with this, is you guys work with me You know me, you know that like I've watched the corporatization of comic book culture you know, for a very long time and I've been very wary about it

Pretty much to the point of cynicism, so I was utterly shocked when I was in that movie, and Cap finally said Avengers Assemble And despite like my gruff, rocky exterior, it worked It got me, they succeeded They cracked like maybe the hardest shell there was to crack Like it broke through the corporate, you know, the corporate sheen and actually like touched me in a profound way

I was not expecting to be touched I thought I'd walk out thinking, okay, cool, great movie Like I did it with Homecoming, did it with a bunch of movies – Yeah – But like, they really actually did it, and I'm shocked that they did and I'm impressed that they did

And I really, really loved it and I think they crushed it – I think that they crushed it too I agree with you 100% – Yeah, totally agree – It's the one thing in the world that could have died by cheesiness

– Yes – And instead embraced it And created a multi-billion dollar experience – [Shane And Versha] Yeah – Yeah, they nailed it

– Well hey, I wanna thank you guys for coming here to talk about Avengers Endgame Of course, you know, we've all been bursting at the seams to talk about it But we finally got here to do it on camera – Yay! – So, for Versha Sharma, Shane Boissiere, Andrew Rivera, I am Moose Lepresto, saying see you in 11 more years (laughing) Bye

– [Versha] Can't wait to do this again! – [Moose] Yeah – [Shane] Bye, love you 3000 – [All] Love you 3000!

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